Agenda for Children & Young People's Overview & Scrutiny Ad-Hoc Panel - Reducing Alcohol Related Harm to Children & Young People - Completed on Monday, 16th February, 2009, 2.00pm
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Agenda and minutes
PDF 181 KBVenue: Committee Room 1, Hove Town Hall. View directions
Contact: Sharmini Williams, Overview & Scrutiny Support Officer
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Copy attached. Minutes: 20a. Declaration of Substitutes
20.1 No substitutes are permitted on Ad-hoc Scrutiny Panels.
20b. Declarations of Interests
20.2 There were none.
20c. Declaration of Party Whip
20.3 There was none.
20d. Exclusion of Press and Public
20.4 In accordance with section 100A(4) of the Local Government Act 1972, it was considered whether the press and public should be excluded from the meeting during the consideration of any items contained in the agenda, having regard to the nature of the business to be transacted and the nature of the proceedings and the likelihood as to whether, if members of the press and public were present, there would be disclosure to them of confidential or exempt information as defined in section 100I (1) of the said Act.
20.5 RESOLVED – That the press and public be not excluded form the meeting. |
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Minutes of the Previous Meeting Draft minutes of the meeting on Tuesday 10 February are not yet available. Minutes: 21.1 That the minutes of the meeting held on the 10 February, 2009 need to be approved and signed by Chairman. |
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Chairman's Communications Minutes: 22.1 Chris Parfitt (Youth Lead on Alcohol) and Mark Whitby (Head of Advisory Centre for education (ACE)) send their apologies. |
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Evidence from Witnesses Councillor Carol Theobald – Chairman of the Licensing Panel
Tim Nichols – Head of Environmental Health & Licensing Minutes: 23.1 Evidence from Councillor Carol Theobald (CD), Chairman of the Licensing Committee and Tim Nichols (TN), Head of Environment and Licensing
23.2 CT informed the panel that there was ongoing work in schools educating pupils on the affects that alcohol has and that generally, under 18’s do not obtain their alcohol from licensed premises.
23.3 TN told members that this was a national problem and that most of the alcohol is obtained from homes, off sales and proxy purchasing.
23.4 TN informed the panel that the Council supports proof of age schemes, but levels of fraud are very high. Police are also reluctant to prosecute under 18’s for using false ID. The Licensing Committee is currently enacting the recent national guidelines to deal with problem licensees.
23.5 CT informed the panel that Challenge 25 was very useful, as were out of school activities. She also stated that refusal log books should be kept as evidence relating to underage sales.
23.6 CT confirmed that the Cumulative Impact Area (CIA) had also been introduced to stop further new drinking establishments from opening.
23.7 TN told members that under age drinking is a national priority and a Health impact Assessment (HIA) is being funded by the Primary Care Trust (PCT) and being undertaken by the Council. It was noted that Licensing was not to blame for this problem, and that marketing, pricing and availability were more the reason.
23.8 TN informed the panel that there was a 40% failure rate for test purchasing and it was difficult to decrease this (Subsequently TN said the current rate was 20%).
23.9 TN advised the panel that underage drinking in on licences has moved to parks in recent years as the on licenses are regulated heavily. In the past when Licenses were less heavily regulated publicans tended to tolerate underage drinking providing they didn’t drink to access.
23.10 In answer to a question as to whether there was a case to charge above a minimum level for alcoholic drinks, TM told members this would be unlawful. For any action to be taken it needs to be demonstrated that there was a “clear causal link” between price promotions and antisocial behaviour. It was noted that it was particularly difficult to establish that link and also to word such restrictions. TN referred to the “Guidance: Department for `Culture, Media & Sport, sections 10:38 & 10:40 of the Licensing Act 2003”
23.11 TN advised the panel that it was important to be mindful of economic conditions and that most licensees were trying to earn an honest living, however it maybe useful to publicise revocations and suspensions in the future.
23.12 TN told members that he was looking forward to the publication of the Health Impact assessment (HIA) and possible changes to the NHS drinking and drug budgets. It was suggested that spending on preventative education might be better allocated on alcohol rather than drugs.
23.13 In answer to a question as to whether the Licensing Act 2003 had any impact on the worsening health figures, TN responded that the reverse was true; there had been a long term rise in consumption and disease relating to alcohol and the Licensing Act 2003 was a reaction to the situation rather than a cause. Since the Licensing Act 2003 there were declining rates of public place violent crime. The Police should also be credited for this. The Licensing Act 2003 has given city centres the ability to spread out “closing time” public disorder.
23.14 In relation to a question why binge drinking amongst young people was worst in the east of the city, TN responded that the analysis of information from the Police show a disproportionate volume of the postcodes from offenders and victims are in the BN25 and BN26 areas.
23.15 In response to a question whether it was possible to restrict the proliferation of off sales premises, TN responded that the Licensing Act 2003 assumed that most of these off sales premises are operating an honourable business; applications are granted automatically unless representations have been made. The Review Panels have more power than the initial License and have a choice of options which are to suspend/revoke the license, remove the premised licensee or take no action. Residents, Trading Standards Officers and the Police can be heard and it is more likely that the Panel would make a more effective decision based on evidence than refuse a new application.
23.16 In answer to a question whether smaller stores were selling to under 18’s, CT responded that there was a case where by a non-english speaking relative, who had received no training was covering a shop when the store failed a test purchase. The shop had been to the Review Panel before with a similar problem and the Owner had not acted upon the advice given by the Review Panel in the first occasion; at the next the Review Panel the decision was taken to revoke the license.
TN told members that sales to underage drinkers was spread out throughout different off and on sales as there were national off licences, franchises, single operators, pubs and bars have all been subjects for reviews.
23.17 In answer to a question how Licensing laws could be tightened TN answered that the recently issued government guidance gave the Review Panel power to restrict the trading hours, or even use CCTV to record sales.
23.18 In response to a question on whether increasing the tax on alcohol would reduce underage drinking TN advised that this would reduce access for young people, should focus on off sales, stores and supermarkets and Government could hypothecate the money to alcohol treatment services and out of school activities. |
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Any Other Business Minutes: 24.1 It was agreed to contact any Representatives from the Youth Council who had given their contact details.
24.2 It was agreed to collate written questions for Chris Parfitt (Youth Lead on Alcohol) and Mark Whitby (Head of ACE) and ask them for written statements.
24.3 The meeting with the youth offender is arranged for Thursday, 19 February and the Chairman will be attending this. |